Curse

Morphy · Oct 22, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Never really liked the format, but man... If they give snowball arena the same treatment then that's two holiday formats down the drain.

fowlero · Oct 22, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I'm mildly confused on the effort to make 3 (or is it more?) completely new maps for a 1 week format when we have the stagnant cesspit that is Codex and so many existing problems with HoH and GvG, let alone RA.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to see a bit of change and must be particuarly nice for PvE players to have something new, myself and many pvpers i know have enjoyed it too even with the lack of good team continuation. But it would be very nice to actually see the result of some similar effort on our 4 remaining arena's.

FoxBat · Oct 22, 2010, 04:51 PM // 16:51

I'm assuming this is an extra map they had lying around that just needed some finishing up. It roughly reflects the destroyer's environment. These four maps were likely created in EotN for hero battles but never included for whatever reason.

fowlero · Oct 22, 2010, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Good point, suppose its highly likely they were never finished and now recycled.

helloeveryone · Oct 22, 2010, 05:10 PM // 17:10

it is always good to see new maps and shuffling the team after every much is great imo.
at least it makes me feel every new match IS a new match lol. i like the format a lot. thanks anet

Aji Moto · Oct 22, 2010, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Yet there is at least one very active thread in Riverside practically begging PvE players to reinvigorate dead formats. You honestly can't see how circular this all is? Beggars can't be choosers and in a dying/shrinking game this idiom is finally sinking in.

I personally think the CB rewards without the ability to get consecutive wins are on the low side. Full randomization also probably isn't the most elegant solution to the problem of syncing. Since this isn't considered formal PvP by Anet however, the whole thing is really moot. Just enjoy it while it lasts or not if you don't and let others do the same?

One problem is that the old CB was one of the favorite formats for many pvp players. It creates balance without sacrificing teamwork. It was what a lot of people wanted Codex to be. Taking away the teamwork aspect of it and rewards for good play has basically ruined a favorite format, whether Anet considers it pvp or not. So it is natural that a lot of people are upset.

Rocky Raccoon · Oct 22, 2010, 05:53 PM // 17:53

The costume brawl is for players of all levels to go and have fun, not just for PvP regulars to use as a "beat the crap out of those stupid PvE'ers" who don't know what they are doing.

Reformed · Oct 22, 2010, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aji Moto

One problem is that the old CB was one of the favorite formats for many pvp players. It creates balance without sacrificing teamwork. It was what a lot of people wanted Codex to be. Taking away the teamwork aspect of it and rewards for good play has basically ruined a favorite format, whether Anet considers it pvp or not. So it is natural that a lot of people are upset.

It looks like the changes were made to stop syncing (correct me there if there is some deeper meaning here). I don't think it was a great solution but it obviously worked. If some members of the community could exercise self control and not sync to bypass the random nature of entry to begin with this could have been avoided. Before anyone gets their hackles up notice I wrote some not the community at large.

tl;dr - A few bad apples spoil the bunch, vent towards the people who really deserve it.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 22, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

The costume brawl is for players of all levels to go and have fun, not just for PvP regulars to use as a "beat the crap out of those stupid PvE'ers" who don't know what they are doing.

What was your point again?

That pve'ers prefer the dumbed down format because they are somehow unwilling to form relations with other players or improve their tactical gameplay? Or is the goal to make the format so undesirable for pvp oriented players that they will stay away?

MithranArkanere · Oct 22, 2010, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

What was your point again?

That pve'ers prefer the dumbed down format because they are somehow unwilling to form relations with other players or improve their tactical gameplay? Or is the goal to make the format so undesirable for pvp oriented players that they will stay away?

No. Let's make a comparison.
It's like an arcade game machine.
A PvPer would be that big boy that is hoarding the 1P button.
And in the 2P, there would be a row of PvErs that lose most of the time.

Now, let's bring the game machine to someone's birthday.
All kids get even turns to play, because that way not all kids get to play. And unless the machine in the arcade, that may stay for a long time, the birthday one is hired for just some days.

In the first case, there's nothing really wrong. The big boy paid for his game, and people keep challenging him. If he is good, he deserves to keep playing, and if the owner kicks him out, well. He shouldn't if he didn't cheat. If you are good, and you win, there's nothing wrong with it.
If another big boy comes and beats him, he'll let any kid replace him, but once his turn come again, since he has more experince, he'll probably get to keep the arcade for some time again.

But in the birthday party, all kids are supposed to have fun, so they are given turns to play.
The kids will sometimes complain, of course. But it's a party, and you'll cry if you want to, but that won't change what parents will do.
Unless the parents are jackasses, even the 'challenged' ones get their turn evenly.

And if you are really good, you won't need 5..25 matches to 'bond' with your teammates. You'll need 2 seconds. Guildelines like:
- Stick together!
- Don't go solo!
- For the love of Greth, DON'T FEED THEM!
- We'll try 2-3, but if they go 5, you 2 run back to the 3 and we stick together until they split.
Can be given quite fast before the match starts.
Of course not everyone will listen. But they must. Even in PvE following the leader is important. So if you really know what you are doing, take the wheel and direct! Radar, calls, and text can be used for that. We don't have in-gave voip like many FPS, or quick-text commands, but still we can comunicate to a certain extent.

Of course in RA is better to be with them more time. You may find a really good team, and maybe leter join for HA or join in a guild and try HA.
But this is a festival game, for Grenth's sake.
It's purpose it's not that. It's just... simple fun! Like when you play some Valve game in multiplayer with a bunch of friends and it doesn't matter if you win or lose.

Let all kids play!

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 22, 2010, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

No. Let's make a comparison.
It's like an arcade game machine.

This makes no sense, I don't know if I should comment or not. The pvp'ers aren't getting more playtime than anyone else, there is no difference from the old system to the new one here.

The only difference is that all the fun has been sucked out of the format. Most of the excitement I hear on this forum seems to come from pve'ers that find some twisted delight in seeing pvp'ers complain about the changes.

I don't understand where you find the authority to say what CB is and should be. It is, in fact, a format with great potential for employing tactics and cooperation. Why throw all that away just because the worst players in GW want to farm tot bags? Can't they just go and farm raptors for that? The playstyle is exactly the same, roll face on keyboard and repeat 100 times. Why ruin the few remaining areas in the game that leave some room for socializing?

It has got nothing to do with winning. I'd rather be on a consecutive losing streak with the same people than getting new people on my team all the time. It's absolutely no problem to win now and you are right it requires skill to assess both your allies and foes quickly to figure out where to go/who to help. But this gets boring really quickly. You must keep in mind even skilled pvp'ers are humans, bringing your A-game to every little match for no reward will exhaust even the most ambitious player.

Killed u man · Oct 22, 2010, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

they whine for nothing or rage over a tiny thing they loved that got deleted from the game.

Trolls. Nothing more to be said, stop trolling this issue, been explained before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Up to this moment, it always gave you REAL reward.

Yes, that was my point. I don't know if you're arguing or agreeing with me, but to clarify things: I was pro-consecutive points (increase as you get more consecutive) as it's a naturally more fitting reward system for PvP.

I keep saying "reward" and "reward". Let me get straight, there are 2 kinds of rewards, the good kind and the bad kind. I'm pretty sure everyone is intelligent enough to draw a line between both. When people get rewarded for doing absolutely nothing but bash some buttons, people will play for the rewards, rather the format. Vice versa, when the rewards are scaled towards the skill input of the player, a player would have to be good, or become better, at the game to reap the rewards, which are the good kind.

In PvE the former is usually the rule. Throwing boxes filled with rewards at people, not because they "deserve them" but just because. The truth is that this would result in more people getting rewards, because the majority of people simply aren't capable of delivering the input needed to truly "reap" rewards. (Which is mostly because Guild Wars PvE pampers you from day1)

So the question you should ask yourself is: Why play the game alltogether? As most people, both pro and con side, agreed upon: CB just became alot more random. Whoever wins now because more a luck of the draw rather than individual skill. (because your team shifts every game) Why would people play together alltogether then? Why not simply do /resign?

Surely, alot of the PvE'ers play for fun, but as I've said as my opening arguement in my OP: Fun is subjective. A monkey might think it's fun to play with a stick for 2 hours straight, but the average human would be bored fairly fast. And that's what CB got reduced too, playing with a stick. And the worst part is: It doesn't even matter what you do with the stick, as you've got an overal 50% chance of winning or losing regardless. So you can now hold a stick for 5 minutes, to have a 50% chance of rewards, only to explain to complete rediculisation of the case.

The game got dumbed down to a level where you simply have to throw a stick around for 5 minutes, and might or might not get a reward. That's what I'm complaining about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

So. You say that PvPers care about fun and not the rewards, or at least that's what the first sentence states - you may wish to reword it. Still, later, you say that 50 ToTs per hour are not enough to be worth playing GvG.

I said that PvP'ers in general care more about fun than rewards, as victory on it's own is a reward. For PvE'ers victory on it's own isn't a reward, because the analogy mentioned earlier, it can be achieved simply by holding a stick for 5 minutes. They want something extra. I'm all in favor of increasing the rewards of PvP (like what they did now), but not at the cost of playability or competitiveness.

When Anet rewards 50 ToT bags per win at GvG, I say that even if it were the reward system implemented right (which it isn't, because it would just get RR'd), the rewards simply aren't high enough for people to even begin GvG'ing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Because PvP is 'superior'? Maybe it was in GW's beginnings, but we're far from that point. But thanks for giving me another example of elitist PvPer that started playing in the first ~16 months of the game's life (basing on your Guru join date, that is). I find that people who started to PvP later, around Q2 of 2007, tend not to be elitist and may accept the fact that GW is no more predominately a PvP-based game. They also, much more freely, accept the holistic view on GW rather than keeping the old, rusty division on PvE and PvP as two completely different things.

I played since beta, I only joined guru so late because GW was my first real MMO, and I never got engaged in the community. But thanks for once again reducing the intire arguement to PvE vs. PvP, it goes to show how deep the frustration goes amongst PvE'ers. I never said GW was a dominated PvP game, I know the large majority is PvE. That doesn't mean that PvE'ers are right on every matter.

Again, if 90% of the PvE'ers were offered a single button to kill every foe in radar, most of them would implement it, or slowly build up the power creep. Why? Because PvE'ers don't learn what game balance is. They only learn C + space and brining enough damage to kill the enemy. If you can't handle this, or think this is elitist talk, I'm really sorry but /cutwrists. Life. Deal with it.

This is not some subjective claim, this is the truth: PvE does not need, or want, you to actively engage at GW. It wants you to roll your head over the keyboard and farm monsters with redicilously imbalanced mechanics/spells. That's good and all, I LOVE steamrolling through PvE on my warrior with splinter buff etc, but it sure as hell doesn't give me any form of foundation to improve at GW, because it is simply not needed.

This is why the Test Krewe failed on so many levels, and a large part of the PvP-community within left (I know over 5 friends who left solely cuz the PvE part of the Krewe simply hasn't got a clue what they're doing). And making an objective statement like this automatically gets you labelled "elitist", because god forbid PvE'ers are all that is good and right in GW.

PvP'ers want challenge, PvE'ers want rewards. Costume brawl is a PvP-minigame and I believe it should get treated as such. Was the intire point of this thread/complaint. Revert the autopilot from CB, fix syncing the right way, and change the bars from being gimped, boring, one dimensional buttonbashers to versatile bars such as the old palmstrike.

MithranArkanere · Oct 22, 2010, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

This makes no sense

That makes sense if you read the rest of the post.
So if you don't understand, then I take you didn't.

10. Read it again.
20. Don't understand it? GOTO 10.
(Just a note, I'm not shouting, it's a BASIC command, XD)

The Festival games are NOT another PvP format.
It's not something I say it 'should' be. It's something I see by myself.

They are meant to let all join. They are just simple games. And like all games, you learn something by playing them. For example, some of the things you may learn:
- Dragon Arena: Dodging. Timing projectiles.
- Rollerbeetle: Wads movement.
- Snowball arena: Among other things, to prioritize targets.

What was Costume Brawl's purpose? It was basically RA with bigger parties and pre-made builds.
Now, with that change, even Costume Arena has one purpose:

- Costume Arena: Teaches getting used quickly to a party random people.

See? Now it's a proper game arena! Nothing serious. Just go there, and do what you can. You can't do anything because half of the time you get bad players? Well, you'll have to have patience and wait until they learn, because we are playing in the schoold yard, not in the regionals.

Painbringer · Oct 22, 2010, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Dear Anet~ Its great thank you for this event and all you do. Its an event...Free no charge event that they do and we do for fun. We have bigger concerns like;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0

Essence Snow · Oct 22, 2010, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Nothing you said here contributes to the discussed matter in the slightest and it is all just meant to stir up more drama. Lay off the trolling, please.

Touche.....granted that post was a direct reply to a post that basically was doing the same thing (calling PvErs stick toting monkeys), I could have incorporated some relavent points and not sunk to the same level. Imo the random teams every round actually increase the individual as well as the team challenge. Why? Because now one has to coordiante in much smaller time frame. You have about 1min to set your team for each match....that's it. Sounds more challenging to me than mutiple planning sessions. Anyhow anywho...I can't believe you got me Morphy..

*lemming* · Oct 22, 2010, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

That makes sense if you read the rest of the post.
So if you don't understand, then I take you didn't.

10. Read it again.
20. Don't understand it? GOTO 10.
(Just a note, I'm not shouting, it's a BASIC command, XD)

The Festival games are NOT another PvP format.
It's not something I say it 'should' be. It's something I see by myself.

They are meant to let all join. They are just simple games. And like all games, you learn something by playing them. For example, some of the things you may learn:
- Dragon Arena: Dodging. Timing projectiles.
- Rollerbeetle: Wads movement.
- Snowball arena: Among other things, to prioritize targets.

What was Costume Brawl's purpose? It was basically RA with bigger parties and pre-made builds.
Now, with that change, even Costume Arena has one purpose:

- Costume Arena: Teaches getting used quickly to a party random people.

See? Now it's a proper game arena! Nothing serious. Just go there, and do what you can. You can't do anything because half of the time you get bad players? Well, you'll have to have patience and wait until they learn, because we are playing in the schoold yard, not in the regionals.

Your entire argument can be summarized as "CB isn't PvP because I said it isn't."

Kydd · Oct 22, 2010, 08:06 PM // 20:06

PVP claims to want evenly matched competitive games and this is giving you more even matches more often so what if you can't "bond" with your team. Sounds to me like the fun you got is when you got a nice team (syncing or not) and roll over people.

Lanier · Oct 22, 2010, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

What was your point again?

That pve'ers prefer the dumbed down format because they are somehow unwilling to form relations with other players or improve their tactical gameplay? Or is the goal to make the format so undesirable for pvp oriented players that they will stay away?

The point is that PvEers prefer a more casual, laid-back format. Is it really such a bad thing for a PvEer to want a less competitive format?

Killed u man · Oct 22, 2010, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

The point is that PvEers prefer a more casual, laid-back format. Is it really such a bad thing for a PvEer to want a less competitive format?

No, not at all, that's why PvE exists. The intire point about competitive
PvP is to be thrilling and action.

I concider the intire battle isles to be Competitive PvP, including holiday events.

Aji Moto · Oct 22, 2010, 09:31 PM // 21:31

What do the pvpers get?